Welcome to the Episode 2 of Becoming YOU Beyond Deconstruction.
I am thrilled to introduce the wonderful Reeder husband and wife team, Eric and Angela Reeder self-described Liberation Artists who have experienced great transitions in multiple aspects of their life.
In this powerful, deep conversation they share their journey of going from on-fire for the LORD charismatic, evangelical church planters who would happily and readily follow God anywhere to do a 180-degree turn which saw them leave it all behind, their old life and connections to follow and trust the path of their soul being laid out ahead of them.
They are passionate about liberating their highest self & experiencing the deepest pleasure of being a human expression of the divine. 25 years of being partners in life & 4 children have brought massive evolution that continues to unfold. They’re expanding their freedom so you can know what’s possible.
Their words and work have inspired me enormously, I am sure their story will do the same for you too.
You can connect with them on Facebook or visit Eric on his website using the following links:
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Interview Transcript
Florence Okwusogu [00:00:38] Okay. So I am so excited to have Eric and Angela Reeder here and I've been following their journey for a little bit now and I really love their energy, their spirit and what they put out. And I selected them to share because I think that they have so much wisdom and insight to share. So as you already know from me sharing my own story, this Becoming Series is about returning to self, returning back to self and all the various ways that that might look like. So without much further ado, I'm just going to ask if you could both introduce yourself briefly and then we'll just take it from there just really, really naturally and see how this unfolds for us. Okay.
Eric Reeder [00:01:35] Yeah. Awesome. Florence, thanks for having us. I'm Eric and I have been really enjoying getting to see and connect with you more and more and it's definitely been for us quite a journey myself, quite a journey through obviously all of life has its different aspects of journeys, but our faith walk, our spiritual walk, our leadership, our giving and serving into the world has been through a lot of twists and turns, ups and downs and a lot of winning, a lot of not winning. And so we've been able to or myself at least have been able to find a find my way through some all kinds of different thoughts, beliefs, faiths, understandings, really over the years and over the decades at this point, as the older that we get so excited to share into some of that and hopefully connect and help others in their journey.
Florence Okwusogu [00:02:32] Yeah, fantastic.
Angela Reeder [00:02:33] Yeah. And, and I'm Angela Reeder and I am really excited just to get to be a part of things with you, Florence, and to be able to share and add value for others. The one part of the journey that we have found is that when you start walking through life and things shift in a major way, you can end up having a lot of people that don't want to associate anymore and you start finding that you're looking for new connections and it is a very difficult process, but oh my goodness, so worth it because the connections that you find on the other side are so beautiful. So for us, I think those those transitions have taken place on everything from the faith journey, the spiritual journey, the parenting journey, how we relate with self. All of those things have just taken on so many different aspects and avenues of life and it's opened doors to meet amazing people like you. So we're really blessed for that.
Florence Okwusogu [00:03:29] Yeah. Thank you.
Angela Reeder [00:03:30] Thank you. To say that like that, that was old school me coming out really well.
Florence Okwusogu [00:03:38] What do you mean by that?
Angela Reeder [00:03:40] Because saying we are really blessed by that I setting I was like, yeah, that's not me, that's not me. Yeah. That's old wiring.
Florence Okwusogu [00:03:48] Yeah. That's, that's really interesting how we can do that. I have to really be mindful of my words as well. It's like, how do we sign off again? How do we end the conversation for it to be kind of authentic but really kind of like show that you value that you value that connection? So yeah. So that's kind of, I think a good place to start, don't you think? I mean, this kind of tension that we can have on the journey of becoming or unfolding, how have you seen that play out in your own life?
Eric Reeder [00:04:32] Go ahead. You're doing a great job.
Angela Reeder [00:04:34] Well, right there, that's just making me think about at the beginning of I mean, we were like we weren't just Christians. We were like, you know, the really radical, the ones who would pack up and move and go across the country. And when the Lord led, you just did what he said. And the sacrifice and the obedience was always 100% of what you had to do, and it didn't matter emotionally or logically if anything made sense. And so that right there was just making me think about our move to Tampa, Florida. And I had a friend there whom I met through my workplace, and she was agnostic and she and I just hit it off. We had the most beautiful relationship and she was just one of those people with no filter. And I can remember her being like, I really don't understand half of what you're saying and being like, Wow, we're this dissociated. Like, we're this disconnected from the people around us by the verbiage that we even use. And she, because she's my friend like we had, you know, it wasn't called Pack a Pew Sunday but basically that kind of an idea where you want everybody to come to church and we want the church building to be so full that Sunday and she willingly came with me and oh, my gosh, to hear her take on everything afterwards was a very huge eye opener for me, because it's one of those things when you are around a culture, you just slowly are conditioned by the culture to where you don't even see how unrelatable you are and how much vocabulary you're using that actually doesn't make sense to the everyday person. And she had she had like a whole list of words. She's like this. None of this even makes sense in today's world. I don't even know what any of this would mean for my life. And I was like, How do you not know those words? Like, you are like a really big heathen, obviously I did. I loved her deeply and there is not any connotation to that. But it was just so funny that I was like, How would one not know this language, this language and this lingo? Like, Oh my gosh. But it was a huge eye-opener of just how much it was so inundated like that was just through and through. And then even having a huge break away from that ministry and then her really sharing her heart of the things she could see that were so unhealthy in my life and in my decisions based upon what I was being taught and told there. I mean, Eric and I didn't get married until we had permission from the pastor that we served under. We didn't move until we had permission from a pastor. We did make huge life decisions that we left in the hand of a man who really didn't care.
Florence Okwusogu [00:07:07] Oh, gosh. It's just so painful to listen to. Oh, my goodness. Wow. Okay, so. What were some of the words that she was like, oh, my gosh. I mean, this really doesn't make sense. Can you remember this? Does it stick out?
Eric Reeder [00:07:24] Man. That was a long time ago at this point. It was early, early 2000s.
Angela Reeder [00:07:29] I just knew things like I can remember her being like like who uses the word covenant anymore?
Florence Okwusogu [00:07:34] Okay.
Angela Reeder [00:07:35] Yeah, well, we do and redemption and salvation. I mean, big key words.
Eric Reeder [00:07:41] Righteousness, I think. Probably. Sure, of course. The blood. Right. That's the real interest.
Florence Okwusogu [00:07:47] Oh, yeah.
Eric Reeder [00:07:48] You know, this idea of the blood of Jesus, the kind of a thing covering you or cleansing you like when you haven't been raised in that like innocent, where maybe obviously many others where that was just commonplace, you know, language and conversation, you know, it it really doesn't there's really zero context for somebody that hasn't really been raised in that. And and even even with any kind of faith or spirituality, there is a place that they're in any pathway or form of spirituality or any kind of religion or belief structure. There's always going to be language within it. Language creates culture for all of us, whether that's national, whether that's or, you know, race or whether that's religion. There's always language involved in all of it. And and yet when we were I think our experience was being raised over here in the in the United States. There's kind of sometimes jokingly and sometimes with pride, something that they call the Bible Belt through the United States, which is just kind of a real stripe through our country that is really, really devout evangelical Christian scenario and with a lot of with a lot of structure, a lot of regulations, a lot of, you know, indoctrinated beliefs. And we were, you know, we grew up and were raised right, you know, right in that in a way that even people that weren't necessarily, quote, church-goers or strong church attenders, maybe it's Christmas, maybe it's Easter holiday wise, still lived within a, you know, general evangelical Christian understanding. And so it was that was a definitely an eye-opener and the spot for us, again, that was nearly 20 years ago at this point that begins maybe started to be a little bit of a crack in our our mind, our thought process that caused us to to step back a little bit and begin to question and begin to look a little further. We were there in Tampa planning a church. So it was, you know, breaking ground, building a church, connecting. We'd move there without knowing anyone. And so these kind of relationships, like Angela was mentioning, were really important to us, really valuable to us, and were some real feedback for us that that allowed us to start looking at things like maybe there's at least I don't want to say better or worse, that's not maybe not the point, but there was something that was different that we could begin to step into. And I think that that I think it probably really was kind of a real beginning point for us that was like, Yeah, I don't know that we want to do it that way. And it for us at that point would have been certainly still doing to evangelical Christian life. But we didn't want to do that. We didn't want to be that unassociatable or we didn't I mean, we were trying to build the church, right? Connect with people, bring them into the church, certainly bring them into a belief in Jesus and Christianity and all of that. And so it was an we were trying to go at that from a relational angle. So we're trying to set up dinners and hang out with people and have people over and go to restaurants. And I remember that another part of that time period as well was is where again, our upbringing was as alcohol was zero permitted, you know, it no one, and Angela and I didn't drink anything and was never around people that drank didn't hang out with people that drank. So we would started taking some of these new friends to connect with them and we would go to a restaurant. They would just order a a beer or a drink or a cocktail, whatever they're having. And the amount of uneasiness that it created was was noticeable inside. I mean, we didn't make any issue with with it with them. But internally, what it was like to feel so awkward to be sitting in a restaurant with alcohol on our table was it was it was breathtaking at a certain I mean, it was really like we didn't know what to do. So so that's some of the you know and boy, I could go on for a long time on the level of legalism and religious control that I was raised in even earlier and younger childhood and so forth. It would take more than just this one podcast for that.
Florence Okwusogu [00:12:28] Wow. Wow. I mean, it sounds it actually sounds quite horrific, to be honest. I thought that, you know, my situation was and, you know, everybody's situation is totally unique to them, but it does sound really stifling.
Eric Reeder [00:12:48] Oh, for for sure. I mean, it was a you were looking I don't remember, not ever paying attention to whether this was going to be okay, not okay. How would this look to someone else? How would this look, especially as a Christian leader, minister, pastor, whatever other title, you know, at one point was even ordained as part of all these different kind of titles within that framework was then always about how you're being perceived, what kind of example you were giving, right? And for us, for Angela and I particularly this goes all the way back to junior high and high school, you know, preteen and teenage life that we were very connected with God, but very dedicated to those, those philosophies, those thoughts, those ways of doing things like, you know, even we never even listened to non-Christian music growing up like the name opponent. Like I never even turned on a radio station growing up because it it could go on and on. I mean, I was raised with not being able to wear shorts in the summertime, certainly couldn't take my shirt off outside. You know, it was very restrictive to the place that everything you tried to do or look to do was always having to pass through the filter of how is this going to be perceived by someone else? And would that represent, quote, represent God well? And, you know, from the youngest of age, you know, all the way through our life, everything was filtered that way. And yeah, we just I think we thought we were having fun. Like, it wasn't like we're sitting around this or begrudging that then because it felt like that's how we were trained, right? So it felt like that's just simply what you do in in a lot of ways we are.
Angela Reeder [00:14:44] Sold out and set apart.
Florence Okwusogu [00:14:45] And you were good, right? You were good. You know, good. You were good in comparison to everybody else. All right.
Eric Reeder [00:14:53] Yeah. And I don't know that necessarily.
Angela Reeder [00:14:54] It never felt good and never felt like it was enough and never felt like we'd actually hit the mark.
Florence Okwusogu [00:15:00] Yeah.
Angela Reeder [00:15:01] So it's a it seemed.
Eric Reeder [00:15:02] Like to me it was like a real prescription. If you can if you can do enough of A through Z, it would then produce a life that we wanted to live. It would produce a life of stability. It would produce a life of peace and joy, feeling and impact. Yeah. And all the little trigger words. Right. But, you know, it would it would we could create something meaningful, some legacy, something lasting, you know, and that was the prescription we were given in order to make a difference.
Florence Okwusogu [00:15:35] Yeah. So it was the formula, right? Yeah. You were kind of like sold a formula to you know, like we've got now the prosperity gospel, you know, it's kind of you're given the formula and if you feel that if you can hit all those prescriptions, like what you said or as many as you can, then the output, what is even though they don't say it's guaranteed, there is this kind of idea that this is what you're going to get as a reward for doing X, Y, Z. And I know that this is something that we've spoken about before. I think for you, correct me if I'm wrong, it was kind of like one of the turning points when you thought that it wasn't you saw that it wasn't, you know, quite as straightforward as that is that correct or?
Eric Reeder [00:16:20] Yeah, I mean, we definitely had probably, you know, at least in my mind, three or four different real turning points that, you know, after that church plant situation that Angela was mentioning or telling us stories on, we ended up leaving that ministry out of a place of a spiritual crisis. We didn't assess that as a crisis between like us and God per se, but we had it was really spiritual abuse that we weren't even aware of that terminology. Then we were in our late twenties and so we ended up leaving that. And that set us on a course, you know, of a different direction that led us to some other great ministry connections, friendships that played out well for our life in that season and those times that helped bring some different place of healing for us, that put us on a course, really, this kind of got us to where we are now. However, over those years to our thirties, we had so many, so many ups and downs, so many falling on our face, so many trying and not getting there. We lived in very difficult financial situations for quite a long time. You know, adding children into our lives, you know, it creates a whole different dynamic and just different, really challenging experiences through life begin, at least for me to reveal that everything that we were giving there would be. I don't want to. This isn't at all like, Hey, look at me or we did something great, but very much so when it comes to that formula that is that we were talking about a minute ago, there would be there wouldn't be very many people that really did check the boxes as much as we did. Like, not as that. Hey, we're better is actually in a lot of ways hey we didn't know any better. But the reality is, is that that that that formula, if you will, didn't produce what it said it would produce to for or for people who had really given themselves to it. And so that, you know, begins to begin to create a place of reassessing. If my life was doing this check sheet as well, quote, or as at least dedicated to it as it was in our life, is not being of much difference than anyone else's that we're seeing. We all have our individual journeys or experiences, but we're having just as many crises, we're having just as many heartaches or just as many financial problems, just as many places of loss and brokenness and heartache. And those begin to say, Okay, so what's up here? And I actually got into a crisis for the first time in my life, in my mid-thirties of of depression and anxiety that began to really begin to cripple me in ways that I just had never experienced prior and somewhat didn't know what to do with, except coming to the place that I realized if I don't do something at that point, I was the only income earner in our home with four kids, which was not much well below poverty line for a family of six. And I in realize that if I don't do something we're we're in a lot of trouble scenarios. So I just had you know to find a breakthrough within me that begin to dive into understanding how to create new mindsets, how to create a new inner working, begin to completely adjust my internal framework, my belief systems, my mindsets, my heart sets, and begin to put in some other practices that I had certainly been trained and told were, quote, not godly or, you know, ungodly as far as the Christian anger would go, begin to utilize those and practices to human side and begin to see more healing and more progress and more growth at a quicker and stronger pace than I had for nearly three decades of of living the formula that we were raised with. So at a certain point, I had to start looking at some fruit, right? I had to start looking at what one scenario was producing versus another. And that definitely led us to ongoing growth in ways that we don't at all feel like we've walked away from walked away from what we felt internally as God connection our whole life. We just are not having to be bound within one certain structure of that idea. And that kind of permission has allowed a lot of differences to flow in is that we have found to be healthier for ourselves, for our relationship, our home, our parenting, our connections with others, etc.. So it's been been quite a ride.
Florence Okwusogu [00:21:19] Wow. I mean, that sounds it's really beautiful, you know, and I can really. I can really see how difficult that journey must have been. And then to, as you said, to put all of this, all of your heart and soul and body into it thou shalt worship the Lord your God with all your might and all your strength and all that kind of stuff. And then and then to kind of go through these crisis points and then to make that decision and say, actually, something's not working for me here. To be brave enough to make that decision for yourself, for your family, for your life. That's. That's so beautiful and self-honouring. Do you? Can you tell me a little bit more about that? What do you think enabled you to choose that as an option for yourself?
Eric Reeder [00:22:21] Well, I think Angela can share here. I won't take long was saying this but it was it had deep challenges because our whole world was that that. I mean our whole income structure as a Christian leader minister who was planting ministries, leading ministries leading networks of other ministry leaders, that was our full source of income. It was our full relational circle. It was our full history. It was our full identity. And so those steps really were us having to look at the openness and willingness to let everything we knew of life dissolve and radically reemerge as something else. And that's been I don't know, and maybe Angela can say something of this, but I don't know that that I can think back to like a specific moment where I was like, this is the decision we were making. To me, it seems like it was a bit of a like a slow drip over many years that began to, I suppose, did have a breaking point, you know, maybe four or five years ago for me, maybe three or four years ago for Angela, that was like, yeah, this is not going to be the way we keep doing things. And so I don't know. Angela, what do you what do you think with that?
Angela Reeder [00:23:48] I think back a lot to the moments of the true transition starting and recognizing how much we were around people. I just feel like these are important parts of the past to recognize, causing us to shift to a different future of watching how much of our circle spent time in spiritual warfare. We were always looking for what the enemy was getting ready to do. We were watching the country fall apart. I mean, we spent months grieving over who had been elected as the political and political offices because of what we had now done to our children and how their lives would be forever ruined because of this. I mean, like just intense amounts of emotional heartache over these huge things. So we were losing perspective on life, really. We were losing even seeing a goodness of God. And so there was a huge part of just being aware of how much of my life do I really want to spend fighting something I can't see, talking about demonic activity or what kind of spiritual attack is taking place now? And like, just really recognizing how exhausting that was, how tired I was of fighting. I'm not that's by nature. I'm not a fighter. And this was just every week, this is what your focus became. And it was exhausting. And then at the same time, part of that fight, of course, the attack on our political climate and the culture of our country has a lot to do with even those, like, for instance, just those like in the homosexual community. And they were my friends and here I am. I'm supposed to be like warring against their infiltration into our culture. And these things just were not resonating. That did not sound like God. It did not sound like my creator. And I just couldn't I couldn't fight against them. I loved them. I wanted the best for them. I wanted them to be free to love as well. And so actually having conversations with people who were struggling to feel accepted and I'm like, that's all any of us want is to feel accepted. And so all of these things just they weren't, they weren't resonating or connecting anymore. And I was realizing, I can't keep living this way. It feels like it's in so much dissonance with who I am and what my heart is for these people. And there were small little things that we tested, which probably at the time didn't feel small at all, like no longer tithing. And like, would would the enemy really come and devour every little bit we had if we weren't doing our tithe on the on the regular and to recognize that we were able to see advancements financially that we've never seen before in all of our decades of tithing to be able to see that we actually came out way better when we stopped tithing. So like, wait, that that formula is definitely a broken formula right there, but a huge part of learning how to love your neighbor as yourself. If you can't love yourself, you sure as heck can't love neighbor. Yeah. And so that began to be a huge, huge voice in my head, constantly saying, you don't love yourself, so how do you love your neighbor? Yeah. And so I wanted to learn how to love myself so I could be that acceptance for people that they were desperate for.
Florence Okwusogu [00:27:08] Yeah, that's that's really powerful. Angela, thank you for that. You know, the the love yourself that is so important. But I think you have to know your. Right. And if you're kind of lost in this bubble where the focus is always on other people and what they're doing wrong and what they are not, then it becomes hard to know, to know yourself, let alone love yourself. Can you talk a little bit about how you were able to begin to build up that self knowing and self-love?
Angela Reeder [00:27:46] I think, interestingly enough, that when I had heard I had a coach that I had hired hiring was coach for from a business perspective, and he was just teaching about how to start using affirmations. And these affirmations were always some kind of an I am statement where we're familiar from our upbringing about an IAM statement. We know who the great I am is, right? Yeah. And all the sudden I was supposed to be declaring these I am things but declaring them over myself.
Florence Okwusogu [00:28:16] Yeah.
Angela Reeder [00:28:17] And I feel like that was a huge shift for me to start understanding that this wasn't something outside, that I was always waiting for someone, something to come and save or rescue or change things. Or if I cried out long enough, he would hear me and come and rescue me. If I did enough, if I had enough faith, then he would make sure my children's future was right. Suddenly it became a very huge shift of recognizing I am, I am. And in that became I first had to believe that there was even something that I am, because before it had all been. I mean, less of me. More of him, right?
Florence Okwusogu [00:28:56] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Angela Reeder [00:28:57] So me recognizing that I actually was was perfectly made, wonderfully made and that I can use these I am statements to start believing in myself and to start stepping up within myself that was a huge turning point in self-love and self-awareness. And it from there, once you believe in yourself for better or for the ability or actually have strength with self. You can start looking at a lot of those shadow places that maybe have been shame places previously because the shame will always hold a spot. And so being able to look at those from a loving and graceful perspective, just like what we actually have been taught, that God was being able to apply that to self and really say, Wait, none of this is actually bad or shameful. It's just been the journey. It's just been the part of the process that needs love and acceptance, just like everything else.
Florence Okwusogu [00:29:52] Yeah. So you've come from this, like what I would call deeply evangelical. Maybe some people might say fundamentalist. I don't know whether you would use that term to describe it. I obviously I'm not American and I feel like the deconstruction movement, I feel like it has kind of started in the US. I'm not sure whether that's the case or not, but it feels like it's very American thing. So hearing what you're saying to me now, it kind of makes sense in the sense that, you know, oh my gosh, you were under that. It sounds like it could be North Korea or, you know, you know, somewhere, you know, it just really, really does sound oppressive. So I know that you've kind of touched upon how you open your eyes to maybe going in different directions, different spiritual practices and things like that. So what did you or what have you touched upon in order to get to where you are or where would you say that you are now? And how did you how did you get here?
Eric Reeder [00:31:02] Well, that's a long question ask.
Angela Reeder [00:31:06] I think one of the most magical parts of where we are right now is that we're actually at a place where we don't have to know.
Florence Okwusogu [00:31:12] Yeah.
Angela Reeder [00:31:13] Because before, it has always been about, do you know the truth or are you seeking the truth? Are you the writer of the truth? Is your theology better than my theology? Because this is what my theology said, and I bet mine's better than yours. And just having this constant need to have just the assurance of something.
Florence Okwusogu [00:31:29] Yeah.
Angela Reeder [00:31:29] And right now, I'm just thoroughly enjoying the ability to just flow in an unknowing space, which requires the greatest faith of all right? Like, I don't know. And to be able to look at something and say, I don't know. I don't know what the greatest truth I had. All I know is at this point, I want to be able to love and accept self and others. I want love to flow in through, around about everything. Like I just want it to be a place where there's grace and there's room and there are safe spaces for everyone to be 110% them, no judgment. no requirement. Just be them. And so. To say that we've arrived at some place or where we stand now. I don't really ever want to stand somewhere. I just kind of fly around in the place of love and not knowing because I think it's I think we naturally, as humans want to have some solid knowing. Yeah.
Florence Okwusogu [00:32:26] Yeah.
Angela Reeder [00:32:26] And so I kind of don't. But that's just me.
Eric Reeder [00:32:30] Well, I think to you, I think to your point and what your your whole passion behind this podcast on becoming, I think that's the that's if there's a here. Yeah. A meaning here where we are now it's in that in exactly that. It's in a becoming. Yeah. It's in a remembering it's in a oh yeah. This is who I've always been. This is the, this is the true me has always been the true me. Yeah, I've never not been me. It's been covered up with a lot of layers. It's been covered up with a lot of pain, has been covered up with a lot of traumas and wounds. It's been, you know, covered up with a lot of training and indoctrination and dogmas and pressures. But I'm unwinding all of that and pulling those layers off. It's the becoming of who I've always been and who we've always been, who we showed up here, who we are when we arrived, as we were with Angela saying earlier that I am we are getting to live our I amness yeah increasingly so the more that we peel off the layers that want to distract, deceive or disguise that. And so that's Angela said it well, there's a lot of things that we don't know and that we're very okay with not knowing and maybe enjoy not knowing more than we used to enjoy thinking we did know.
Florence Okwusogu [00:33:52] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that. That's, that's that's lovely. Yeah. There's definitely something about this unfolding this journey of unfolding the rediscovery and the re remembering and I guess walking in that and seeing how it feels. It's the discovery isn't it? The discovery of self. Yeah, that's beautiful.
Eric Reeder [00:34:20] Well we are of infinite source, right. We that's we can't exist outside of that. And so that's the same power that created worlds and created universes is what's flowing through this, you know, what we call this physical body. And it has it has patterns that it's always been. And those are what is getting to what we're trying to increasingly allow to move more freely in us and move more freely through us as the gateway of our mind either is letting in or letting out what is available to us. And it's that renewing of the mind, as the Apostle Paul put it. Well, it's that transforming that that Metanoia as another, you know, Greek language of. Yeah. Of change in your mind. Yeah. Rethinking everything. It's even interesting to me the because it probably would be what you said about our journey of fundamentalist evangelical Christianity. And for us, particularly for me, my entire life of there being from the spirit filled, charismatic, you know, stream of that, you know, the idea of being born again is really a much better understanding of what that word means. Original language of John three is the idea of rethinking everything from the top down. It really doesn't have any context of this idea of a dead spirit or a dead soul that gets that come to life once you make a confession of faith. It's really the idea of rethinking everything. And so Jesus, as it is,told in that story, was telling this Pharisee. Nicodemus, if you want to connect into the, quote, kingdom of God, the flow of God, the reality of God, you're going to have to rethink everything from the top down.
Florence Okwusogu [00:36:23] Yeah.
Eric Reeder [00:36:23] And I feel like that's the journey that we've been on. We we maybe at one point thought we were born again in this moment of prayer when we were kids. But I think we've been being born again, again, again, again and again and again, again. And that's been that's been the thrill that we're enjoying.
Florence Okwusogu [00:36:40] Yeah. You've just kind of reminded me of something when I wake up in the morning and I like to when I get a chance and my two year old allows me to to just see what pops up again in my mind when I've been sleeping. And one of the things that came up for me was this was kind of linked to what you're saying here. Our body knows how to heal itself. You know, our cells are constantly healing themselves and replacing themselves and with our mind, we tend to hold on to stuff. So kind of with the renewing being born again allowing those dead mental cells to go away and be replaced by new ones so that we're constantly, constantly, constantly growing, developing and being in the in the right mind, whatever that means. I definitely I definitely see that just at one point in time, everything is just new. We've gotten rid of all the old and he's was just left with, like, brand new thoughts that allow you to move forwards. Yeah, that's.
Eric Reeder [00:38:00] Yeah. And we have amazing studies, you know, now and understanding now in our, you know, in our current our current day, you know, that you'd maybe even be able to speak to more and know more. But, you know, the whole understanding of epigenetics and the ability for our brain to actually renew itself, reform itself, it's continual. Well, and and and neuroplasticity was what I was trying to get at. Maybe I said epigenetics a minute ago with neuroplasticity, with the ability of our mind still being formable, moldable. It's not concrete, it doesn't solidify. It's always in the process and journey of renewing and the practices behind that. Or there's multiple different kinds of practices to to move our mind to new places. And I think the more that we're doing that, you know, in our lifetime of of at this point 30, you know, I quote became a born again Christian when. I was eight years old. So, you know, I'm towards 35 years worth of that understanding. I think all along the way, when I look back over my life from my teen years to my twenties to my thirties and now in my forties, there's been major shifts of understandings and beliefs that I've left behind from what I held previously, all through those decades. And I would have imagined in my 50s 60s and on, I'll still be leaving behind stuff that maybe I even understand now or perceive now or embrace now. Maybe five, ten years from now, I won't have anything to do with that either. I think that because I want to continue to become yeah, I want to be in this process of becoming, as you're saying. So, yeah. We'll see how it goes.
Florence Okwusogu [00:39:49] Yeah, that's that's really beautiful. Thank you for that. I'm just aware of time. I did have a question, gone but it's kind of cut out of it's kind of gone out of my mind now. Is there anything that you would like to anything else that you would like to to add?
Eric Reeder [00:40:10] I think for our journey it is showed us that there is so much available for us as humans when we drop the requirements that we demand, everybody do it our way or see it our way or be like we are, meaning whoever we are and when we can allow ourselves for us to be more and more of who we really are. Trusting that that gives the permission for anyone and everyone else to become who they are without it having to be our way. I think. I think that does something beautiful that more and more humanity is stepping into. And what that will bring forth in the generations and millennias ahead of us, I think can be so much healthier than what we've experienced in the past. So that's the kind of thing that's encouraging to me and exciting to me that it doesn't have to be my way. I'm not trying to make it my way. I'm not trying to evangelize you into my way. I get to enjoy me and enjoy what I see and share it. And if that gives in to someone and serves into someone else's life, then that's thrilling and remaining open to receive in from wherever. I remember reading the book Velvet Elvis by Rob Bill back in the early 2000 where he said Any truth seekers should be okay to find truth anywhere. And that's been a really strong place for us, is to see that there is truthfulness available in so many places and it's enjoyable to seek that out.
Florence Okwusogu [00:42:01] Yeah, I love that so much. I know that there is a lot of fear within Christianity. There's probably a lot of fear in many kind of, you know, religions that have very strict ways of doing things. I think even if you were to maybe look at some kind of new age or a new age, I don't know what to call them. I don't know if I call them religions. But, you know, practices or groups that meet this, probably I perceive some of that fear as well, just in a slightly different way to Christianity. And I feel that where there are very strict rules, it does kind of it stops you from being that I am and stops you from discover discovering that in other people it causes that separation. So yeah, I'm really happy that you've been able to shine your light for others because, you know, that's how I was able to come across the both of you. And it's brought us to this point now. So yeah, long story short.
Eric Reeder [00:43:18] It's very, very good. You know, it makes me think about the word eternity that it's interesting the book of Ecclesiastes these as it's cool verse it says that God put eternity within the hearts of humans in the word eternity. I think it's been misrepresented by this idea of timelessness when we should really perhaps perceive it more helpful to perceive it as boundlessness. And any time humans find themselves having bondage or restrictions or constraints around us, we very quickly see what happens and we begin to become unhealthy because from the from our very inception, there is an eternal there is an everlasting, boundlessness within all of our souls. And the more that we allow ourselves to step into that meaning, remove the restrictions and the restraints and the ceilings and the bondage, is the more that boundlessness flows through relationships and love and impact and finances and healing and wholeness, that boundlessness or abundance gets to move in all kinds of of.
Florence Okwusogu [00:44:26] Gosh, I just love that so much.
Eric Reeder [00:44:31] Which we are boundless is something much more powerful than just timeless.
Florence Okwusogu [00:44:36] Yeah, yeah. And yeah, I feel like the binding. Really happens. It happens for a number of reasons, but I feel like control definitely is that there and with control is manipulation. But it's also creates blindness to your own power, to your own potential. And just really recognising. I mean, we used words I AM, but they they don't really do justice do they? I mean, they're just words, you know, and it's great that we can connect with it, but probably if it's just like sit with it for a little bit, our mind would just go, you know, it's just like, you know, what does this literally mean? But I feel like that's why this becoming aspect is so important. For me, when I kind of received this word of Becoming, it was because to me it was actually kind of a reaction against the the be do have paradigm I was hearing a lot of in the in the coaching world and it kind of felt false and inauthentic from the from the top down, like this is what I want to have. And therefore, in order to have this, this is what this is who I need to be. Whereas, you know, all these things that we are naturally attract and create or the things that we desire to have and do, and we do not have to try and put another box around that, because this is the way that we've been conditioned. This is what success looks like or this is what my life needs to look like, or this is what my relationships need to look like. But tapping into that self-knowing then that self love and feeling like it is safe for us to be who we are and allowing us to bring what only we can bring into the world is such a powerful and beautiful space to exist in.
Eric Reeder [00:46:47] I completely I'm excited to begin to put some stuff together to offer through what I do that's going to help us see really the different kind of phases that we can live in, in our development in a way that helps move us from a place of resisting to the place of creating, to the place of attracting, ultimately to the place of radiating, because that's that it is sourcing from within. That is our truest nature. And I determined that I wasn't going to trade, as you said a minute ago, trade one box for another box. I wasn't willing to trade one check sheet for another check sheet. And I suppose we probably all do in a certain way, but I constantly want to have my mind set on, as you said, becoming and and really living a life that is radiating and sourcing more than trying to attract in a lot of coaching aspects and angles right now is simply existing on an attraction level versus a radiating level. And I think there's a further place that we get to go or can go in living our boudnlessness. It's not just about attracting, but is actually just about becoming, as you say, and as radiating from this and sourcing what is actually already in us.
Florence Okwusogu [00:48:04] Yeah. Thank you so much, both of you. I could talk to you guys forever. I really could. Well, without time, without space. And probably we already talking somewhere. Somehow we already communicated. How amazing was that conversation? I am sure that you can tell how much I loved it, but I want to hear from you. What stood out for you? What was something that just made you think? Oh, yes, maybe it was something that connected to your own journey so far. Or maybe it's about where you want to go on this becoming journey. I would love to hear from you. Share your insights. I mean, one of my favorite bits was around this idea of eternity as boundlessness. I mean, I even shrieked, you could see how excited I was about that concept, and it has definitely stayed with me since the conversation. So yeah. I want to know your thoughts, your reflections from listening to this interview.
EP02 From Church Planting to Embracing Soul Liberation - Interview with the Reeders